Thanks for the really interesting coverage about the Brockwell Park issue!
I've attended Mighty Hooplah several times and very much match the demographic of the '5 gays with laptops' and ordinarily would describe myself as more of a YIMBY.
However, I've lived very close to Finsbury Park for about 6 years and having experienced the disruption that occurs every summer I feel conflicted.
Every summer in Finsbury park the set up begins, taking over at least 50 percent of the park for weeks and weeks, erecting massive fences that get in the way of thoroughfares, huge trucks roll through, and burly staff in high-vis yell at you if you happen to try and walk or cycle the wrong way.
As someone who has lived without a garden for many years, Finsbury Park operates as my garden, my gym and my social space. I get frustrated when that is taken away from me for big chunks of the warmer months and resent the private companies using a community and public space to make money.
I appreciate that it's an important fundraiser for cash strapped council- but perhaps if we could see tangible results of that money improving the parks it wouldn't leave such a bad taste in the mouth?!
I believe there's a middle ground somewhere that allows festivals to still go ahead, while perhaps minimising the infrastructure, or compacts the set up and pack down time... or perhaps like your piece mentions, it's a case of every other year, or maybe there's alternative spaces that are more suitable?
Not knowing the full details of the money that's being earned and not knowing how much each council is earning really does seem to be a core part of the problem here and one I'm going to put more effort into reporting - and of course, I'll send a reporter to court next Thursday...
It's really hard to find anything helpful on the Haringey website about the costs and profits for Finsbury Park and I have tried. That said I loathe the funfairs and the endless running events but I don't try and ruin everyone else's fun trying to stop them. There is room for a variety of events and space for things that the teenagers and younger adults of Haringey might actually want to do in the Park.
yeah that is the thing - why cannot there be any debate with proper numbers? This is something that was mentioned in the previous article. It's like there is no communication between parts and just festivals giving free tickets to the relevant politicians:?
Brockwell park local here who’s sympathetic to both sides of the argument. I do wish those opposing the festivals could make their arguments without having to get all conspiracy theory the moment someone’s brave enough to pop up in support. Thanks for looking into this!
It's a good heuristic that anyone claiming to be the voice of the "silent majority" is behaving like a massive arsehole.
The argument SayYesLambeth make is disingenuous. I'm a similar age to them, and I resent having to give up my access public spaces because of a for-profit piss-up. There's already vanishingly few bits of London where you can simply exist without paying someone a chunk of money.
By all means, support more housing and local pubs being able to open late. But to compare that to walls being put up around our public parks in the height of summer is ridiculous.
‘Majority’ is certainly tenuous but I think it’s reasonable to say that the pro festival side’s been a lot less represented in local discourse. Good on them for standing up and making that case even if I don’t agree with all of it
Speaking as someone who volunteers/mediates at Parkrun fairly frequently, there’s always going to be tension between different uses of the park. Those conversations will be a lot more productive if we don’t go into them convinced that those on the other side are entitled or that their concerns are inherently less important than ours
Here in Boston Manor Park we have the annual trance dance shindig which causes huge sections of the park to be out of bounds for more than a week, although the actual tribal gathering lasts a mere 2 days. Now, as a paid up Boomer I find myself torn over whether to support or decry the kids' fun days. I don't live close enough for the 'music' to affect my life but I resent not being able to walk at will through the park (although Will has taken out a Restraining Order, yet I persist).
Yes, the festival is I think either Junction 5 or Great West, it's on every year it seems. The Park is very dramatic what with the elevated motorway cutting through it and so much in demand as a location for filming. I call Brentford the Venice of the West.
Again, an issue where I see both sides, but mostly I see how the summer festivals are doomed in every city (in Spain where I am from there are many issues with them at the moment, with Madrid festivals being doomed to be banned and Primavera Sound being, I think, on its last few editions before being completely forbidden, but this is also because these festivals last until 6 am), and this is also a difference on how we related to the city and its festivities decades ago and how we do now - I remember as a kid, living in the outskirts of Madrid, having the local festivities banging until 3 am during the week it was happening, almost every night, and it was something that I assumed, not being able to sleep and listening to the live music from my window every day. Living with noise, with permanent nuisance, was kind of normal, and there must be a balance between being a complete nimby "no ball games" and "no children playing" and "no festivals" and losing your very precious minutes of relaxation. There is also the economic aspect of course, and it was debated on the previous news.
What is also true is that Mighty Hoopla, as mainstream gay as it is, seems like another piece of queer party being attacked (and we queers need the party, it is a completely different universe for us, rules are different, joy is almost everywhere, this is why I do not enjoy my nights out with straight parties anymore), and it could be a precedent for Body Movements and others to be kicked out. It is also true that these festivals are the only side of live music that seems to be working with a profit nowadays. And I cannot stop thinking of that other article about Drumsheds, about the neighbour complaining about people on drugs at Tesco.
I live in Brighton near Preston park, which has similar issues and I am torn. It has many festivals (music, food and comedy) and events, Including the start of the marathon. The worst is unfortunately Pride, which takes 10 days using the entire public area of the park in the middle of summer, with really unfriendly security. I do want to Iive in a city where stuff happens and at the same time use the park daily to walk my dogs and go for a run.
Thanks for the really interesting coverage about the Brockwell Park issue!
I've attended Mighty Hooplah several times and very much match the demographic of the '5 gays with laptops' and ordinarily would describe myself as more of a YIMBY.
However, I've lived very close to Finsbury Park for about 6 years and having experienced the disruption that occurs every summer I feel conflicted.
Every summer in Finsbury park the set up begins, taking over at least 50 percent of the park for weeks and weeks, erecting massive fences that get in the way of thoroughfares, huge trucks roll through, and burly staff in high-vis yell at you if you happen to try and walk or cycle the wrong way.
As someone who has lived without a garden for many years, Finsbury Park operates as my garden, my gym and my social space. I get frustrated when that is taken away from me for big chunks of the warmer months and resent the private companies using a community and public space to make money.
I appreciate that it's an important fundraiser for cash strapped council- but perhaps if we could see tangible results of that money improving the parks it wouldn't leave such a bad taste in the mouth?!
I believe there's a middle ground somewhere that allows festivals to still go ahead, while perhaps minimising the infrastructure, or compacts the set up and pack down time... or perhaps like your piece mentions, it's a case of every other year, or maybe there's alternative spaces that are more suitable?
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
Not knowing the full details of the money that's being earned and not knowing how much each council is earning really does seem to be a core part of the problem here and one I'm going to put more effort into reporting - and of course, I'll send a reporter to court next Thursday...
It's really hard to find anything helpful on the Haringey website about the costs and profits for Finsbury Park and I have tried. That said I loathe the funfairs and the endless running events but I don't try and ruin everyone else's fun trying to stop them. There is room for a variety of events and space for things that the teenagers and younger adults of Haringey might actually want to do in the Park.
yeah that is the thing - why cannot there be any debate with proper numbers? This is something that was mentioned in the previous article. It's like there is no communication between parts and just festivals giving free tickets to the relevant politicians:?
Brockwell park local here who’s sympathetic to both sides of the argument. I do wish those opposing the festivals could make their arguments without having to get all conspiracy theory the moment someone’s brave enough to pop up in support. Thanks for looking into this!
It's a good heuristic that anyone claiming to be the voice of the "silent majority" is behaving like a massive arsehole.
The argument SayYesLambeth make is disingenuous. I'm a similar age to them, and I resent having to give up my access public spaces because of a for-profit piss-up. There's already vanishingly few bits of London where you can simply exist without paying someone a chunk of money.
By all means, support more housing and local pubs being able to open late. But to compare that to walls being put up around our public parks in the height of summer is ridiculous.
‘Majority’ is certainly tenuous but I think it’s reasonable to say that the pro festival side’s been a lot less represented in local discourse. Good on them for standing up and making that case even if I don’t agree with all of it
Utterly absurd to claim that this guy’s ’whole scene and culture is about to be deleted’. What a sense of entitlement.
I’d have a bit more sympathy without that, but I’m with Mark Rylance, the festival-centric summer is doing so much damage to our parks.
Why is it entitled to lament the increasing restrictions on people’s ability to party but not entitled to want your local park to be a certain way?
Because nature is more important than partying? And sorry, but banning the Mighty Hoopla, is hardly the Criminal Justice Bill v.2
No it is not, and having a festival is hardy the Criminal Justice Bill Part 2 either.
Can you argue in good faith, as a starting point?
Speaking as someone who volunteers/mediates at Parkrun fairly frequently, there’s always going to be tension between different uses of the park. Those conversations will be a lot more productive if we don’t go into them convinced that those on the other side are entitled or that their concerns are inherently less important than ours
Here in Boston Manor Park we have the annual trance dance shindig which causes huge sections of the park to be out of bounds for more than a week, although the actual tribal gathering lasts a mere 2 days. Now, as a paid up Boomer I find myself torn over whether to support or decry the kids' fun days. I don't live close enough for the 'music' to affect my life but I resent not being able to walk at will through the park (although Will has taken out a Restraining Order, yet I persist).
Ah - I've been spending a lot of time up your way investigating water quality, sounds like I need to incorporate it into my park reporting as well.
Yes, the festival is I think either Junction 5 or Great West, it's on every year it seems. The Park is very dramatic what with the elevated motorway cutting through it and so much in demand as a location for filming. I call Brentford the Venice of the West.
Again, an issue where I see both sides, but mostly I see how the summer festivals are doomed in every city (in Spain where I am from there are many issues with them at the moment, with Madrid festivals being doomed to be banned and Primavera Sound being, I think, on its last few editions before being completely forbidden, but this is also because these festivals last until 6 am), and this is also a difference on how we related to the city and its festivities decades ago and how we do now - I remember as a kid, living in the outskirts of Madrid, having the local festivities banging until 3 am during the week it was happening, almost every night, and it was something that I assumed, not being able to sleep and listening to the live music from my window every day. Living with noise, with permanent nuisance, was kind of normal, and there must be a balance between being a complete nimby "no ball games" and "no children playing" and "no festivals" and losing your very precious minutes of relaxation. There is also the economic aspect of course, and it was debated on the previous news.
What is also true is that Mighty Hoopla, as mainstream gay as it is, seems like another piece of queer party being attacked (and we queers need the party, it is a completely different universe for us, rules are different, joy is almost everywhere, this is why I do not enjoy my nights out with straight parties anymore), and it could be a precedent for Body Movements and others to be kicked out. It is also true that these festivals are the only side of live music that seems to be working with a profit nowadays. And I cannot stop thinking of that other article about Drumsheds, about the neighbour complaining about people on drugs at Tesco.
I live in Brighton near Preston park, which has similar issues and I am torn. It has many festivals (music, food and comedy) and events, Including the start of the marathon. The worst is unfortunately Pride, which takes 10 days using the entire public area of the park in the middle of summer, with really unfriendly security. I do want to Iive in a city where stuff happens and at the same time use the park daily to walk my dogs and go for a run.