You can re-read a piece twenty times yet still send it out with a line describing Lime as “one of the biggest pirate transport operators" in the capital, rather than a "private transport operator". That's been fixed, with thanks to the readers who enjoyed spotting it!
Back in the day, there were branches in a few London high streets selling goods of an "adult" nature , originally called Private Shops, I think owned by West Ham's David Sullivan, some of which were later rebranded/resigned as "Pirate Shops" .
Regarding the organised phone stealing… I was in London a few months ago and stopped for a bit of peace and quiet in a small community garden behind Tottenham Court Road - Phoenix Park I think it’s called… anyway I found a phone there and then got talking to a woman who lived in the flats overlooking the park. She said the thieves dump the phones in the bushes there throughout the day and come back for them at the end of the day in case they are arrested (they don’t want to be arrested with loads of phones on them). (I managed to reunite the phone with its owner.)
The sad state of the Tories now (dragged into a Trumpian conservative space that is predisposed to demonise big cities) is illustrated I fear by James Cleverly's 'I hate was has happened to London/my heart is in Essex', which ticks two boxes at once.
I read his response as an admission he wants to be Prime Minister and sees being associated with London as making it very difficult to get the Tory members' vote. Really sad to see as 18 years ago it wasn't a negative for Boris Johnson.
With e-bikes, I can now see a capital wide bike scheme partly propping up the local boroughs financially. Obviously this was hinted at in the article anyway, but locking Lime in (with the tender going public every 5 years or so) and fining them for badly parked bikes while taking a drink of the profits is a win for the boroughs and solid for Lime. And Mumsnet will have more luck complaining to County Hall than they will do complaining to Lime.
Pirate/ Private? A reminded of the early 1920”s and Pirate bus menace. Proper regulation is urgently required. Remember unlicensed mini-cabs?
Alone last week picked up three of these extremely heavy pests off the pavement. We all know now the sound as a teenager goes past having again hacked it- Where you see Line, expect low- level youth crime.
Out of control and running on an infrastructure we ultimately pay for through road tax- what about them? Nice one Hackney and K&C.
We expect TfL to produce data as required and when requested on accidents etc Why not Lime? As its Uber backed you don’t have to be a genius to work out its business ethos, off- shore and extractive practices. Are they paying enough tax?
Regulation is on the way in a few years and that's what's interesting.
One way of looking at it is the old Uber mode; move fast, grow super fast, deal with the externalities at a later date, establish a dominant market position, then welcome regulation because you're already so big it's hard to compete. It's hard to see other London e-bike providers having Lime's scale or financial heft when the regulations do come in, so you end up with a de facto single pan-London operator.
Now, I'm a regular user of them and they're great in so many ways at getting people cycling. But that corporate process seems worth interrogating.
I'd really love to understand the legal basis through which certain areas of payment have 'cycle hire' painted on them, and then become parking spots for Lime. Surely this is done with some kind of consent from the local authority?
BTW I inadvertently discovered an huge Lime bike operations depot right next to The Den recently
In Lambeth the council put them in in response to complaints about parking and as part of its strategy to convert a decent chunk of car parking spaces to other uses. AFAIK there’s no distinction in parking permissions between Lime and other operators, there are just a lot more Lime bikes around
The infrastucture for cycling isn't paid through road tax. Road tax barely covers the cost of the increasing number of pot holes caused by the rise of mega-SUVs like the new Range Rovers.
The main much bigger issue in London from a safety perspective, from a congestion perspective and from a road damage perspective, is the rise of the totally unnecessary and lethal large SUV. Bikes are a drop in the ocean compared to that.
Ps the ease with which they coughed up to Hackney is v revealing.
They know they are taking the p… but know full well it takes time in a democratically accountable culture to catch up with their excesses. They know this and expect the more egregious loop holes and transgressions to be eventually plugged. Part of their model: invade, swamp and let the capital eventually catch up. Meanwhile cash in! V Uber who have not forgotten TfL”s previous interventions to save the black cab from similar tactics.
Same in Australia… no real data and they have completely captured government regulators …
The exact opposite of what is needed…
“The bill also amends the Road Transport Act 2013 and two other Acts to support the legal use of e-scooters and other micromobility vehicles on roads and road-related areas in New South Wales. It clarifies the regulatory status of these vehicles and their exclusion from certain motor accident compensation schemes. Amendments to the Road Transport Act 2013 confirm that disqualified drivers may still legally operate exempt micromobility vehicles, as these do not require a driver licence or registration.
Amendments to the Motor Accident Injuries Act 2017 will define a micromobility vehicle as an e-scooter or other prescribed vehicles exempt from registration and clarify that injuries or deaths resulting solely from micromobility vehicle use—that is, where no registered motor vehicles are involved—are excluded from the scope of the Act. It also excludes micromobility vehicles from claims against the Nominal Defendant for uninsured vehicle accidents. Amendments to the Motor Accidents (Lifetime Care and Support) Act 2006 will clarify that injuries from micromobility vehicle accidents—where no registered motor vehicles are involved—are not covered under the Lifetime Care and Support Scheme.”
ITV piece showed how bad things are with regard to cyclists in the capital- flagrant, confident flouting of basic road rules. An extreme example is near an infants school at a junction at Clapton- they bomb down when they see the park in the distance at least at 30mph plus, flyover the crossing, hurl abuse at anyone who dares to say that the cyclists traffic lights are not there for decoration- it’s a matter of time before a child is killed. When Met do enforce, it’s confetti time as so many fines handed out to our sainted cyclists.The Victorian bye-less need urgent modernisation but expect serious kick back as organised MC connected as usual- they also get downright nasty as so entitled.JC on a bike has to stop- its not inherently morally superior than a bus or train. Lime know regulation of cyclists is a joke as the ITV London piece proved- more than half are colour blind or in denial at junctions .Lime pushing at an open door.
The traffic lights that cyclists do not feel apply to them are paid for through road taxes and local rates pay for cycle infrastructure- so they are not contributing as they should. Lime should cough up!
Jim - in a world of killjoys using the ubiquity of Lime bikes as yet another excuse to moan about cyclists, I really appreciate you focusing on the actually interesting and important issues it raises, like rider safety, the limits of councils’ powers, and what happens when private equity funding and culture literally hits the streets
Lots of them sleeping with the fishes on the bed of Old Father Thames but for the life of me I cannot get their useless recovery operatives to collect their slowly decaying poisonous batteries attached to their slowly rusting bikes. . In Sydney several dozen were mounted in a tree for decoration (though not Lime Bikes but) . . There are old Lime Bikers and stupid Lime Bikers but not so many old and stupid Lime Bikers
SUV are dire but……it’s not a Q of which is worse but in this case, one thing at a time, let’s look at a totally out of control Lime bike epidemic and the bizarre alternative universe cyclist road behaviour.
Pumped up with testosterone, aggressive and often down right nasty when you dare Q their colourblind attitude to traffic lights, people will be killed till the uniquely virtuous mind set of often dangerous cyclists ends.
Again, love cycling since 5 years old but know of two good friends hospitalised by cyclists. Falling over Lime bikes at night just adds to the “fun”. Tried picking one up? No wonder they smash leg bones.
1924 Traffic Act lies at the heart of the thinking that still permeates a modern TfL and that free for alls in any form of model form of transport is a menace.
It was introduced to stop unsocial practises such as punch- ups between bus crews fighting over passengers. The good of society and passengers came first and the act received cross- party support’
Given the numerous issues thrown up by a predatory invasion launched by Lime and achieved through sheer numbers, they well and truly fit the bill for full accountability, health and safety and proper tax coding. Anything else that runs in the capital does, so just because it’s an a “Green” bike, why does it not apply. Again, legislation needs to be quicker and more responsive. Blocking a pavement if we did it would soon end in a fine or intervention by local council. Yet this is exactly what Lime does every day.
Love to know what is their corporate modus operandi? Tax?
I also suspect unless something changes TfL in- house bike hire is dying.
All true - like the p….ck floppy haired hipster who ran across that junction at Clapton with no lights and just missed a dog Walker at 9.30 last night- never happens, does it?
As councils remain short of income, as with the use of parks for commercial use , festivals etc , the closer relationship between the hire bikes and councils is going to increase local controversy (for and against) as they increasingly rely on financial incentives rather than any neutral or objective overall benefit.
The sacred bike again- SUV is awful but Line bikes are a B menace.
Getting on a bike does not make you better or JC in Lycra- laughable adherence to traffic lights. Filmed recent on ITV London at Old St. Hundreds going through green when people crossing- grow up cyclists. Lime yet another manifestation of sainted double standards for a form of transport that the maj still do not use and thinks has its own traffic rules.
Lime are not paying the true costs required to use our infrastructure- By the way love cycling!
I think cycling through a red light and driving a massive SUV are two sides of the same coin. Same as blasting music out of a phone. All are examples of the same kind of selfishness. People who cycle through lights or drive a large SUV essentially don't care much about people other than themselves, and their safety.
They are the same but yet again the holy cyclist thinks can do no wrong-,cycle like SUV”s can and do kill. I have been hit twice by speeding bikes when crossing a road, knocked into the road and then abused as the
You can re-read a piece twenty times yet still send it out with a line describing Lime as “one of the biggest pirate transport operators" in the capital, rather than a "private transport operator". That's been fixed, with thanks to the readers who enjoyed spotting it!
Freudian slip!
Back in the day, there were branches in a few London high streets selling goods of an "adult" nature , originally called Private Shops, I think owned by West Ham's David Sullivan, some of which were later rebranded/resigned as "Pirate Shops" .
My eye stayed with that word for a second then I carried on reading. So I'm not as useful as I think I am.
But they are pirates - killing and maiming pedestrians
Regarding the organised phone stealing… I was in London a few months ago and stopped for a bit of peace and quiet in a small community garden behind Tottenham Court Road - Phoenix Park I think it’s called… anyway I found a phone there and then got talking to a woman who lived in the flats overlooking the park. She said the thieves dump the phones in the bushes there throughout the day and come back for them at the end of the day in case they are arrested (they don’t want to be arrested with loads of phones on them). (I managed to reunite the phone with its owner.)
Very nice of you to do that!
Do the police know this?
The lady who lived in the overlooking flats said that they were well aware but never do anything.
Would they do anything if they did?
The sad state of the Tories now (dragged into a Trumpian conservative space that is predisposed to demonise big cities) is illustrated I fear by James Cleverly's 'I hate was has happened to London/my heart is in Essex', which ticks two boxes at once.
I read his response as an admission he wants to be Prime Minister and sees being associated with London as making it very difficult to get the Tory members' vote. Really sad to see as 18 years ago it wasn't a negative for Boris Johnson.
With e-bikes, I can now see a capital wide bike scheme partly propping up the local boroughs financially. Obviously this was hinted at in the article anyway, but locking Lime in (with the tender going public every 5 years or so) and fining them for badly parked bikes while taking a drink of the profits is a win for the boroughs and solid for Lime. And Mumsnet will have more luck complaining to County Hall than they will do complaining to Lime.
Pirate/ Private? A reminded of the early 1920”s and Pirate bus menace. Proper regulation is urgently required. Remember unlicensed mini-cabs?
Alone last week picked up three of these extremely heavy pests off the pavement. We all know now the sound as a teenager goes past having again hacked it- Where you see Line, expect low- level youth crime.
Out of control and running on an infrastructure we ultimately pay for through road tax- what about them? Nice one Hackney and K&C.
We expect TfL to produce data as required and when requested on accidents etc Why not Lime? As its Uber backed you don’t have to be a genius to work out its business ethos, off- shore and extractive practices. Are they paying enough tax?
Regulate!!!
Regulation is on the way in a few years and that's what's interesting.
One way of looking at it is the old Uber mode; move fast, grow super fast, deal with the externalities at a later date, establish a dominant market position, then welcome regulation because you're already so big it's hard to compete. It's hard to see other London e-bike providers having Lime's scale or financial heft when the regulations do come in, so you end up with a de facto single pan-London operator.
Now, I'm a regular user of them and they're great in so many ways at getting people cycling. But that corporate process seems worth interrogating.
I'd really love to understand the legal basis through which certain areas of payment have 'cycle hire' painted on them, and then become parking spots for Lime. Surely this is done with some kind of consent from the local authority?
BTW I inadvertently discovered an huge Lime bike operations depot right next to The Den recently
In Lambeth the council put them in in response to complaints about parking and as part of its strategy to convert a decent chunk of car parking spaces to other uses. AFAIK there’s no distinction in parking permissions between Lime and other operators, there are just a lot more Lime bikes around
And that is where you Jim and your people come in! Thank God your there re our capital, thank God.
No one else reporting this stuff, no one and its not bat s..t crazy hard left/right for a refreshing change. A public service.
The infrastucture for cycling isn't paid through road tax. Road tax barely covers the cost of the increasing number of pot holes caused by the rise of mega-SUVs like the new Range Rovers.
The main much bigger issue in London from a safety perspective, from a congestion perspective and from a road damage perspective, is the rise of the totally unnecessary and lethal large SUV. Bikes are a drop in the ocean compared to that.
Ps the ease with which they coughed up to Hackney is v revealing.
They know they are taking the p… but know full well it takes time in a democratically accountable culture to catch up with their excesses. They know this and expect the more egregious loop holes and transgressions to be eventually plugged. Part of their model: invade, swamp and let the capital eventually catch up. Meanwhile cash in! V Uber who have not forgotten TfL”s previous interventions to save the black cab from similar tactics.
Same in Australia… no real data and they have completely captured government regulators …
The exact opposite of what is needed…
“The bill also amends the Road Transport Act 2013 and two other Acts to support the legal use of e-scooters and other micromobility vehicles on roads and road-related areas in New South Wales. It clarifies the regulatory status of these vehicles and their exclusion from certain motor accident compensation schemes. Amendments to the Road Transport Act 2013 confirm that disqualified drivers may still legally operate exempt micromobility vehicles, as these do not require a driver licence or registration.
Amendments to the Motor Accident Injuries Act 2017 will define a micromobility vehicle as an e-scooter or other prescribed vehicles exempt from registration and clarify that injuries or deaths resulting solely from micromobility vehicle use—that is, where no registered motor vehicles are involved—are excluded from the scope of the Act. It also excludes micromobility vehicles from claims against the Nominal Defendant for uninsured vehicle accidents. Amendments to the Motor Accidents (Lifetime Care and Support) Act 2006 will clarify that injuries from micromobility vehicle accidents—where no registered motor vehicles are involved—are not covered under the Lifetime Care and Support Scheme.”
Oh it’s global and cynical.
Totally agree with you. Does Uber run all the great cities of the world and do we let them get away with it?
Amazon v similar cynical model- why prices are sky rocketing?
ITV piece showed how bad things are with regard to cyclists in the capital- flagrant, confident flouting of basic road rules. An extreme example is near an infants school at a junction at Clapton- they bomb down when they see the park in the distance at least at 30mph plus, flyover the crossing, hurl abuse at anyone who dares to say that the cyclists traffic lights are not there for decoration- it’s a matter of time before a child is killed. When Met do enforce, it’s confetti time as so many fines handed out to our sainted cyclists.The Victorian bye-less need urgent modernisation but expect serious kick back as organised MC connected as usual- they also get downright nasty as so entitled.JC on a bike has to stop- its not inherently morally superior than a bus or train. Lime know regulation of cyclists is a joke as the ITV London piece proved- more than half are colour blind or in denial at junctions .Lime pushing at an open door.
Praying hard that I never get stuck with you at a party
Pleasure, cyclists never do anything wrong, not ever.
Oh and electric scooters- the criminals best friend? Again, catch up time…..
The traffic lights that cyclists do not feel apply to them are paid for through road taxes and local rates pay for cycle infrastructure- so they are not contributing as they should. Lime should cough up!
Cyclist behaviour in London needs serious looking at.
And behaving v badly.
They are using the same road.
PS been loving cycling since I was 5! Adore!
Very nice Katie Melua reference on that last pic, there.
Jim - in a world of killjoys using the ubiquity of Lime bikes as yet another excuse to moan about cyclists, I really appreciate you focusing on the actually interesting and important issues it raises, like rider safety, the limits of councils’ powers, and what happens when private equity funding and culture literally hits the streets
Thanks! I am basically a full time person who cycles BECAUSE of Lime and I don’t want to be a misery guts about it.
Would be keen to understand the mechanism Kensington and Chelsea council leader Elizabeth Campbell used to fine them £50k in two weeks.
I can’t quite believe it if I’m honest despite it being so obvious to everybody in London how much these guys take the piss.
Lots of them sleeping with the fishes on the bed of Old Father Thames but for the life of me I cannot get their useless recovery operatives to collect their slowly decaying poisonous batteries attached to their slowly rusting bikes. . In Sydney several dozen were mounted in a tree for decoration (though not Lime Bikes but) . . There are old Lime Bikers and stupid Lime Bikers but not so many old and stupid Lime Bikers
SUV are dire but……it’s not a Q of which is worse but in this case, one thing at a time, let’s look at a totally out of control Lime bike epidemic and the bizarre alternative universe cyclist road behaviour.
Pumped up with testosterone, aggressive and often down right nasty when you dare Q their colourblind attitude to traffic lights, people will be killed till the uniquely virtuous mind set of often dangerous cyclists ends.
Again, love cycling since 5 years old but know of two good friends hospitalised by cyclists. Falling over Lime bikes at night just adds to the “fun”. Tried picking one up? No wonder they smash leg bones.
Totally agree.
1924 Traffic Act lies at the heart of the thinking that still permeates a modern TfL and that free for alls in any form of model form of transport is a menace.
It was introduced to stop unsocial practises such as punch- ups between bus crews fighting over passengers. The good of society and passengers came first and the act received cross- party support’
Given the numerous issues thrown up by a predatory invasion launched by Lime and achieved through sheer numbers, they well and truly fit the bill for full accountability, health and safety and proper tax coding. Anything else that runs in the capital does, so just because it’s an a “Green” bike, why does it not apply. Again, legislation needs to be quicker and more responsive. Blocking a pavement if we did it would soon end in a fine or intervention by local council. Yet this is exactly what Lime does every day.
Love to know what is their corporate modus operandi? Tax?
I also suspect unless something changes TfL in- house bike hire is dying.
Bike buddy is the clue?
All true - like the p….ck floppy haired hipster who ran across that junction at Clapton with no lights and just missed a dog Walker at 9.30 last night- never happens, does it?
Interesting article, thank you.
Would be great to see an article on the dangers of e-bike riders on London's pavements.
This is now a huge problem in London and I fear it is only a matter of time until someone is seriously injured.
Ok. And thank you. A potential “chamber of horrors” of Tory candidates then!!
As councils remain short of income, as with the use of parks for commercial use , festivals etc , the closer relationship between the hire bikes and councils is going to increase local controversy (for and against) as they increasingly rely on financial incentives rather than any neutral or objective overall benefit.
The sacred bike again- SUV is awful but Line bikes are a B menace.
Getting on a bike does not make you better or JC in Lycra- laughable adherence to traffic lights. Filmed recent on ITV London at Old St. Hundreds going through green when people crossing- grow up cyclists. Lime yet another manifestation of sainted double standards for a form of transport that the maj still do not use and thinks has its own traffic rules.
Lime are not paying the true costs required to use our infrastructure- By the way love cycling!
I think cycling through a red light and driving a massive SUV are two sides of the same coin. Same as blasting music out of a phone. All are examples of the same kind of selfishness. People who cycle through lights or drive a large SUV essentially don't care much about people other than themselves, and their safety.
Cyclists failed to stop.
They are the same but yet again the holy cyclist thinks can do no wrong-,cycle like SUV”s can and do kill. I have been hit twice by speeding bikes when crossing a road, knocked into the road and then abused as the