Would be a huge mistake for the left to allow "caring about the state of our public spaces" to become right-wing-coded. This graffiti stunt may be pretty specious, but if it puts pressure on Khan to start taking this stuff seriously, great.
Another point re Bakerloo lines and these global far right: there is this obession with posting examples of litter, graffiti (and often pictures of ethnically mixed groups of people) and equating the latter with the former. All wrapped up in a narrative of decline of public spaces.
But even on the overarching narrarive of decline in the quality of public spaces, it takes barely five minutes to look up pictures of London from the 1980s so see just how much things have improved on that front. The same can be said to a lesser extent for New York.
And they helped create the damage by nobbling the state since the 1970's Thanks Milton Friedman and Keith Joseph. Smash everything up, extract value and then blame others.
I can't wholeheartedly agree with this take. Load up google street view and go to your local high street in the early 2000's, or just find any photo of a bus, train, etc from that time period, and compare to now. I feel like you're looking in the wrong timeframe.
No mention by the Cummings acolytes, of course, of the disgraceful deal Johnson did (when Mayor) with Osborne to cut all government funding for TfL. As a result, it’s been in a Treasury stranglehold since emergency funding in the pandemic, with accelerated decline and effects on all its operations — and that’s without factoring in the “benefits” of outsourcing the cleaning contract. Maybe no need to look further than Tufton Street for the income source, either?
Re: Bakerloo graffiti. I despise these scumbags who spray their tags on anything they can like dogs pissing to mark their territory. There was a beautiful mural on Walthamstow marshes and it’s been completely covered in crappy tags.
It destroys an area-yet the liberal press somehow go easy on dull, crime inducing as it gives the impression the authorities have nolonger police a place and pantological blatant narcissism.
B awful and does genuine harm. I think London boroughs go find really useful things to do with the multiple millions spent cleaning up the mess. Its soooo poor artistically. Dire. Basically gives the impression the criminals are running a place Look at Dalston Junction. Nice shops giving it a go open and within days nicely 'f...ed by this damage.
Its does real economic damage to an area. And LUL could do without having to waste many millions on these utter tossers. Worse thing is PS boys now get to discover the tube. Quite an experience for them especially if you come from Gloucester?
This is the issue with these rightwing groups. No matter what they say, when it comes to things like private schools, tackling the hoarding of wealth by the very rich, or addressing tax avoidance (all of which contribute to the degradation of public services), they all sing from the same old conservative tune.
Re that expensive contract the ten year old experts highlight? Look up tri- pack paint? Though their nanny swore by a bit of elbow grease, it’s specialist work and toxic- idiots cleaning in packed cars with no face masks.
Re Bakerloo line trains. If not enough sets can be taken out of service, why not do as the activists did; clean the trains in motion during off-peak? Cars being cleaned could be temporarily closed to the public because 'cleaning in progress', as happens in many loos.
I assume the answer is somewhere in a TfL operating manual and the outsourced contract as to why this is considered impossible. They’ve found and highlighted a very real issue.
I'm glad you say they've highlighted a very real issue here Jim because the report above is a bit 'ooh er right wing' without saying much of substance. To me this campaign is quite obviously a public good and sincerely intentioned. I'd appreciate a LondonCentric investigation into the problem itself, I hoped that's where you were going with it.
The Bakerloo trains are genuinely disgusting - we’d been looking to do a piece on the issue highlighted a couple of months ago but by that point it felt pretty well covered elsewhere. eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62j12wp00jo
What I find interesting is the effectiveness of last week’s media campaign and I wanted to know why it worked and who was behind it. Repeat this at scale with short form video and you’ve got something that could change london politics - or it could quickly burnout and become another footnote like many before it.
The train wash was out of service for double digit weeks, apparently entangled in network rail repair beaurocracy (not TfL). The track around the depot in North London is shared between underground and rail, and the network rail owned trackage used to access the train wash was out of service. The question is why network rail did not expedite the repair per TfL requests. Note the train wash would not remove interior graffiti.
It is a valid question why budget was not prioritised to increase cleaning and repairs and investigate whether cleaning could be better streamlined with repair work.
The bigger question is why funding was not released earlier for new trains for Picc and also clarity of funding for follow on order of same stock for Bakerloo, in effect "levelling up" the Humberside area where trains will be made. Ideally creating a 20+ year programme of steady replacement for all deep tube lines (then following on to rolling stock replacement for e.g. Merseyrail or similar which would then be of an age when it might need replacement).
Jim: Your piece pretty much covers the ground. It’s a right-wing propaganda stunt with a typical astroturf dimension, possibly funded by US-influenced backers. The nexus of right-wing “think tanks” and pressure groups based very near Parliament, many linked through personnel and politics to the Vote Leave campaign and its acolytes, has been well-documented elsewhere. Unpicking the web of connections, and especially the funding, is likely to be complex and deliberately obscured, but those running the campaigns are very media-savvy and know which channels, hacks and outlets to use to spread the message. Bakerloo line trains are obviously in a dire state; some of the real reasons have been commented on here, but the public isn’t going to delve into them when a simplistic campaign can project it simply as the failure of a politician who’s long been a hate-figure for the right.
And the unfortunate truth is Bakerloo will soldier on. As the equipment is almost completely electromechanical and has parts that can be repaired by specialists almost indefinitely (similar to heritage trains) then they can be kept in service (at a significant revenue cost); the fleet is big enough for this to be sustainable. Hence Picc is getting new trains first despite bakerloo being older (and curves on the line mean that no other fleet can cascade; the new picc trains are designed to be compatible for bakerloo when the funds are eventully found)
Newer trains with electronic controls are more subject to end of supply of critical parts from manufacturer (NB this is also why BBC radio 4 long wave will eventually go off air; transmitter replacement not considered worthwhile and the key specialist parts are running out with no manufacturer willing to invest to make more)
If so, that would be making a point for the protestors. But I can see the need to mitigate the perceived risk of asking people to work on a rapidly accelerating and decelerating platform. I imagine this would not be insurmountable.
Someone eventually gets badly injured and TFL are liable for hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation claims. Union tells members not to do it. Back to square one with a staff member on long-term sick and less money for cleaning contracts. This is how things work whether we like it or not - very easy to score cheap points when you’re a macbook guy working from cosy shared-office spaces.
Not really- bleach on a working tube train v bad idea- so they like the tube? Add Don and it’s v suspect. Right wing dishonesty as TfL l lost under George Osborne. Cosplay concern from posh boys.
Many of us do volunteer to help with failing government/local authority services ( like cleaning streets and parks) recognising that they have been underfunded for years. We don’t do it to make cheap political points.
A great sub-stack but this looks cod from people who in all honesty don;t give a tinkers cuss about TfL and how since 2015 the tube has struggled due to the economics they espouse esp Harwood, Touching concern for a nationalised industry.
V doge feel as well. AND v odd the tags mostly on trains without cameras. Overhauled cars are in much better, often pristine condition. Tri-pack paint on exterior of cars is baked on and has to have specialist treatment to remove graffiti. IF you try to simply wipe off, its ruined.
Why its used, not some Byzantine public sector red tape ancient missive. How LUL under Denis Tunnicliffe got back its dignity and pride. And EVEYTHING must be fully Fennell Report fire compliant. Remember what happened in the autumn of 1987. Lots of red tape cutting no doubt.
Those suddenly cleaning the tube like lovely Tom are from good schools- mommy and daddy worked blooming hard! To pay the fees” Gloucester as in new to the capital
"despite TFL paying 'eye-wateringly large cleaning contracts' to a contractor.
Which is government policy for everything. Outsource as the private sector is 'more efficient' and 'fuels growth'. So that's seemingly what this group is arguing for. Unless they're arguing to grow the state by taking the contract back in house (which I doubt).
"Looking for growth instead argues graffiti can be removed in seconds...we had removed dozens of graffiti tags in the space of an hour".
Gosh, I wonder how long it would take to fully clean every tagged train. Not 'seconds' it seems.
What Ho! its the spirit of the General Strike again! By the way, the 'tags' look v amateurish indeed-very. No cameras on trains on both of the most effected lines in the Bakerloo and Central. that is now being fixed.
A temporary issue as 1972 and 1992 tube stocks go through Acton Works: one its very stupid to be using corrosive liquids eg bleach in the enclosed space of a tube car in actual service( by-laws rightly tough on this) and they are probably making it worse by leaving a 'shadow' in the panels. Tom Harwood must be enjoying the school 'hols' again.
TfL reclaim your trains before this lot of Dom and Elon fans destabilise the capital. A nutjob Maurice Cowling at Oxford has a lot to answer for.
PS 500M operating grant cut under PS chums Boris and George did the tube no favours. 'That bus by the way is now obsolete. Heathwick again! They got to screw LUL and then blame Labour. Only metro really in the world that has seen such a destructive cut. And its performative. Like Tom cares about integrated transport? Thought the Centre for Policy Studies and Adam Smith Institute sorted out buses and rail? ENTERPRISE! Its been such a success! Bring on GBR! Sanity, not ideology.
I’ve rarely had to use the Bakerloo line but have taken two trips recently. Both were shocking.
The issue is both the graffiti, which is the worst I have ever seen, but also the utterly dilapidated state of the trains in general which are laughably beyond their expected shelf life.
I’d have thought new trains would have CCTV which would immediately discourage this.
I fear the will to provide TfL with the government funding needed for capital investment to bring in new trains quickly enough isn’t there.
Yes - Sadiq Khan asked the central Labour government for new Bakerloo trains and they have effectively said go whistle. So it’s going to be a fun experiment in whether the existing trains can be held together with sellotape past their 60th birthday.
Happened before with the 1938 tube stock in 1978-they ended up eventually working on the I of Wight until 2024. 72 stock is a major rebuild, car bodies etc.
Its not just the trains, signalling is 1930's. BUT, expect as inevitably Bakerloo is extended, brand new trains and digital signalling.
A local levy as in Northern line and Liz line could pay for it. Route is safeguarded. Meanwhile very heavy overhauls on 72 stock makes financial sense while the future of a line which since 1914 has repeatedly failed to brake out of the Elephant is decided. They actually began tunneling south of Elephant in 1939, with the Camberwell extension abandoned during devaluation under Chancellor Stafford Cripps in 1949. Even appeared on the tube map as under construction.
If BLE does go ahead, changes what is required big time. E.G A new depot is essential south of the Thames to compliment Stonebridge Park as the number of trains required on the line doubles. Another possibility is restoring services to Watford Junction. The Bakerloo will become a very different line indeed.
92 stock on Central constructed using pre-digital components and DC, not AC traction , a major, major rebuild.
I doubt Tom and chums are advocating substantial Treasury support for LUL? Cosplay of the highest form and nobody should be using corrosive liquids which give off fumes on a packed tube train however good it looks on You Tube.
Would be a huge mistake for the left to allow "caring about the state of our public spaces" to become right-wing-coded. This graffiti stunt may be pretty specious, but if it puts pressure on Khan to start taking this stuff seriously, great.
Another point re Bakerloo lines and these global far right: there is this obession with posting examples of litter, graffiti (and often pictures of ethnically mixed groups of people) and equating the latter with the former. All wrapped up in a narrative of decline of public spaces.
But even on the overarching narrarive of decline in the quality of public spaces, it takes barely five minutes to look up pictures of London from the 1980s so see just how much things have improved on that front. The same can be said to a lesser extent for New York.
And they helped create the damage by nobbling the state since the 1970's Thanks Milton Friedman and Keith Joseph. Smash everything up, extract value and then blame others.
I can't wholeheartedly agree with this take. Load up google street view and go to your local high street in the early 2000's, or just find any photo of a bus, train, etc from that time period, and compare to now. I feel like you're looking in the wrong timeframe.
No mention by the Cummings acolytes, of course, of the disgraceful deal Johnson did (when Mayor) with Osborne to cut all government funding for TfL. As a result, it’s been in a Treasury stranglehold since emergency funding in the pandemic, with accelerated decline and effects on all its operations — and that’s without factoring in the “benefits” of outsourcing the cleaning contract. Maybe no need to look further than Tufton Street for the income source, either?
Re: Bakerloo graffiti. I despise these scumbags who spray their tags on anything they can like dogs pissing to mark their territory. There was a beautiful mural on Walthamstow marshes and it’s been completely covered in crappy tags.
It destroys an area-yet the liberal press somehow go easy on dull, crime inducing as it gives the impression the authorities have nolonger police a place and pantological blatant narcissism.
B awful and does genuine harm. I think London boroughs go find really useful things to do with the multiple millions spent cleaning up the mess. Its soooo poor artistically. Dire. Basically gives the impression the criminals are running a place Look at Dalston Junction. Nice shops giving it a go open and within days nicely 'f...ed by this damage.
AND.. often its rich MC who do it! Not cheap.
I’d have thought it’s the rent increases in Dalston, but yep, it’s an absolute menace.
Its does real economic damage to an area. And LUL could do without having to waste many millions on these utter tossers. Worse thing is PS boys now get to discover the tube. Quite an experience for them especially if you come from Gloucester?
PS boys? And what's it got to with Gloucester?
Gentrification-
young men cleaning public spaces to own the libs? I don't hate it
Maybe someone should point them at fly tipping next?
And trying to destroy the state.
This is the issue with these rightwing groups. No matter what they say, when it comes to things like private schools, tackling the hoarding of wealth by the very rich, or addressing tax avoidance (all of which contribute to the degradation of public services), they all sing from the same old conservative tune.
Re that expensive contract the ten year old experts highlight? Look up tri- pack paint? Though their nanny swore by a bit of elbow grease, it’s specialist work and toxic- idiots cleaning in packed cars with no face masks.
Re Bakerloo line trains. If not enough sets can be taken out of service, why not do as the activists did; clean the trains in motion during off-peak? Cars being cleaned could be temporarily closed to the public because 'cleaning in progress', as happens in many loos.
I assume the answer is somewhere in a TfL operating manual and the outsourced contract as to why this is considered impossible. They’ve found and highlighted a very real issue.
I'm glad you say they've highlighted a very real issue here Jim because the report above is a bit 'ooh er right wing' without saying much of substance. To me this campaign is quite obviously a public good and sincerely intentioned. I'd appreciate a LondonCentric investigation into the problem itself, I hoped that's where you were going with it.
The Bakerloo trains are genuinely disgusting - we’d been looking to do a piece on the issue highlighted a couple of months ago but by that point it felt pretty well covered elsewhere. eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62j12wp00jo
What I find interesting is the effectiveness of last week’s media campaign and I wanted to know why it worked and who was behind it. Repeat this at scale with short form video and you’ve got something that could change london politics - or it could quickly burnout and become another footnote like many before it.
The train wash was out of service for double digit weeks, apparently entangled in network rail repair beaurocracy (not TfL). The track around the depot in North London is shared between underground and rail, and the network rail owned trackage used to access the train wash was out of service. The question is why network rail did not expedite the repair per TfL requests. Note the train wash would not remove interior graffiti.
It is a valid question why budget was not prioritised to increase cleaning and repairs and investigate whether cleaning could be better streamlined with repair work.
The bigger question is why funding was not released earlier for new trains for Picc and also clarity of funding for follow on order of same stock for Bakerloo, in effect "levelling up" the Humberside area where trains will be made. Ideally creating a 20+ year programme of steady replacement for all deep tube lines (then following on to rolling stock replacement for e.g. Merseyrail or similar which would then be of an age when it might need replacement).
Jim: Your piece pretty much covers the ground. It’s a right-wing propaganda stunt with a typical astroturf dimension, possibly funded by US-influenced backers. The nexus of right-wing “think tanks” and pressure groups based very near Parliament, many linked through personnel and politics to the Vote Leave campaign and its acolytes, has been well-documented elsewhere. Unpicking the web of connections, and especially the funding, is likely to be complex and deliberately obscured, but those running the campaigns are very media-savvy and know which channels, hacks and outlets to use to spread the message. Bakerloo line trains are obviously in a dire state; some of the real reasons have been commented on here, but the public isn’t going to delve into them when a simplistic campaign can project it simply as the failure of a politician who’s long been a hate-figure for the right.
And the unfortunate truth is Bakerloo will soldier on. As the equipment is almost completely electromechanical and has parts that can be repaired by specialists almost indefinitely (similar to heritage trains) then they can be kept in service (at a significant revenue cost); the fleet is big enough for this to be sustainable. Hence Picc is getting new trains first despite bakerloo being older (and curves on the line mean that no other fleet can cascade; the new picc trains are designed to be compatible for bakerloo when the funds are eventully found)
Newer trains with electronic controls are more subject to end of supply of critical parts from manufacturer (NB this is also why BBC radio 4 long wave will eventually go off air; transmitter replacement not considered worthwhile and the key specialist parts are running out with no manufacturer willing to invest to make more)
If so, that would be making a point for the protestors. But I can see the need to mitigate the perceived risk of asking people to work on a rapidly accelerating and decelerating platform. I imagine this would not be insurmountable.
Someone eventually gets badly injured and TFL are liable for hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation claims. Union tells members not to do it. Back to square one with a staff member on long-term sick and less money for cleaning contracts. This is how things work whether we like it or not - very easy to score cheap points when you’re a macbook guy working from cosy shared-office spaces.
Not really- bleach on a working tube train v bad idea- so they like the tube? Add Don and it’s v suspect. Right wing dishonesty as TfL l lost under George Osborne. Cosplay concern from posh boys.
Many of us do volunteer to help with failing government/local authority services ( like cleaning streets and parks) recognising that they have been underfunded for years. We don’t do it to make cheap political points.
A great sub-stack but this looks cod from people who in all honesty don;t give a tinkers cuss about TfL and how since 2015 the tube has struggled due to the economics they espouse esp Harwood, Touching concern for a nationalised industry.
V doge feel as well. AND v odd the tags mostly on trains without cameras. Overhauled cars are in much better, often pristine condition. Tri-pack paint on exterior of cars is baked on and has to have specialist treatment to remove graffiti. IF you try to simply wipe off, its ruined.
Why its used, not some Byzantine public sector red tape ancient missive. How LUL under Denis Tunnicliffe got back its dignity and pride. And EVEYTHING must be fully Fennell Report fire compliant. Remember what happened in the autumn of 1987. Lots of red tape cutting no doubt.
Those suddenly cleaning the tube like lovely Tom are from good schools- mommy and daddy worked blooming hard! To pay the fees” Gloucester as in new to the capital
"despite TFL paying 'eye-wateringly large cleaning contracts' to a contractor.
Which is government policy for everything. Outsource as the private sector is 'more efficient' and 'fuels growth'. So that's seemingly what this group is arguing for. Unless they're arguing to grow the state by taking the contract back in house (which I doubt).
"Looking for growth instead argues graffiti can be removed in seconds...we had removed dozens of graffiti tags in the space of an hour".
Gosh, I wonder how long it would take to fully clean every tagged train. Not 'seconds' it seems.
What Ho! its the spirit of the General Strike again! By the way, the 'tags' look v amateurish indeed-very. No cameras on trains on both of the most effected lines in the Bakerloo and Central. that is now being fixed.
A temporary issue as 1972 and 1992 tube stocks go through Acton Works: one its very stupid to be using corrosive liquids eg bleach in the enclosed space of a tube car in actual service( by-laws rightly tough on this) and they are probably making it worse by leaving a 'shadow' in the panels. Tom Harwood must be enjoying the school 'hols' again.
TfL reclaim your trains before this lot of Dom and Elon fans destabilise the capital. A nutjob Maurice Cowling at Oxford has a lot to answer for.
PS 500M operating grant cut under PS chums Boris and George did the tube no favours. 'That bus by the way is now obsolete. Heathwick again! They got to screw LUL and then blame Labour. Only metro really in the world that has seen such a destructive cut. And its performative. Like Tom cares about integrated transport? Thought the Centre for Policy Studies and Adam Smith Institute sorted out buses and rail? ENTERPRISE! Its been such a success! Bring on GBR! Sanity, not ideology.
This cadre of people puts me in mind of this recently published research https://www.psypost.org/narcissists-perceive-inequity-because-they-overestimate-their-contributions-study-suggests/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky
I’ve rarely had to use the Bakerloo line but have taken two trips recently. Both were shocking.
The issue is both the graffiti, which is the worst I have ever seen, but also the utterly dilapidated state of the trains in general which are laughably beyond their expected shelf life.
I’d have thought new trains would have CCTV which would immediately discourage this.
I fear the will to provide TfL with the government funding needed for capital investment to bring in new trains quickly enough isn’t there.
Yes - Sadiq Khan asked the central Labour government for new Bakerloo trains and they have effectively said go whistle. So it’s going to be a fun experiment in whether the existing trains can be held together with sellotape past their 60th birthday.
Happened before with the 1938 tube stock in 1978-they ended up eventually working on the I of Wight until 2024. 72 stock is a major rebuild, car bodies etc.
Its not just the trains, signalling is 1930's. BUT, expect as inevitably Bakerloo is extended, brand new trains and digital signalling.
A local levy as in Northern line and Liz line could pay for it. Route is safeguarded. Meanwhile very heavy overhauls on 72 stock makes financial sense while the future of a line which since 1914 has repeatedly failed to brake out of the Elephant is decided. They actually began tunneling south of Elephant in 1939, with the Camberwell extension abandoned during devaluation under Chancellor Stafford Cripps in 1949. Even appeared on the tube map as under construction.
If BLE does go ahead, changes what is required big time. E.G A new depot is essential south of the Thames to compliment Stonebridge Park as the number of trains required on the line doubles. Another possibility is restoring services to Watford Junction. The Bakerloo will become a very different line indeed.
92 stock on Central constructed using pre-digital components and DC, not AC traction , a major, major rebuild.
I doubt Tom and chums are advocating substantial Treasury support for LUL? Cosplay of the highest form and nobody should be using corrosive liquids which give off fumes on a packed tube train however good it looks on You Tube.