I think the point about the bad deal is important. I wouldn't object to Wireless Festival in Finsbury Park if I thought the council were really squeezing the operators for money, but summer events in Finsbury Park turn over somewhere around £40 million a year of which the council only takes £1.2 million to put back into the park. Local council committees aren't any more capable of negotiating effectively with big festival operators than they are with big property developers. In the future, when all the councils are stripped of their powers in the way that London Centric commenters hope and pray for, these things should be negotiated centrally so that the festival operators can't shop around so easily.
One of the first things I did when starting LC was try to find out how much councils are getting. Inevitably it was locked down under commercial confidentiality. If people saw that the council got X million they might be more positive. Or they might just saw it’s not enough!
I'd be happy if the Council got more money from the operators but I'd be even happier if the likes of The Friends of Finsbury Park were even vaguely representative of the local population or if local social media comment was equally critical of the noise and mess created by the middle aged white rock band events as it is of Wireless.
Yeah, same here. I get mildly pissed off with the noise from the Finny P festivals and that but I'd be happy for them to put on more if I thought they were getting a fair amount of cash. I'm almost certain, from what I can glean from the accounts, that they're not.
Disappointing to see London Centric pretend that there are two sides to this... the festivals are destroying the park, that's a fact. It hasn't recovered at all from last year - also a fact. It seems to endorse the view that it's all fine because LGBTQ+ people need "somewhere to dance and have a nice time". Anyone who thinks destroying the park is a good idea must be a "retired white person". You might as well give airtime to climate change deniers or flat-earthers.
Now if the council wants to host festivals, great - but they need to be smaller, shorter and more money needs to go into repairing the spaces and leave them in a better condition than they were before.
Never going to both-sides a story for the sake of it but there’s definitely a tension here… some people are quite happy with the trade-off of the damage. Would be neglectful to exclude those voices.
I went to check it out for myself back in October and you can look back at a piece I wrote on the damage to the park and the promoters giving away tickets to local councillors back.
These parks are massive and the festivals only use part of them at any one time, with the rest open to the public. Having slightly less muddy patches of grass is less important than council revenues for local residents and the fun that the festivals offer for the average Londoner
The problem is more than just more muddy grass. Last year it was a total wasteland that is only just starting to recover.
That's before you consider the disruption to wildlife. Also, talking specifically about Brockwell, the festivals take up a huge amount of space. They occupy most of the grassland areas, and fence off even more for their operational and support areas and access roads.
If you seriously think building a fortress in a public park that denies people access and causes more environmental damage than any income generated covers, is a good exchange, then you're part of the problem.
The people against festivals in Finsbury Park also claim the Park is destroyed each year and it's just not true. The hyperbole doesn't help the case for more environmentally responsible festival operations.
I can't speak to Finsbury park, only Brockwell...and I can promise you it's not hyperbole. It might be that some parks are just better suited to events.... I used to live next to Victoria Park and that always seemed to cope much better. It certainly bounced back a lot quicker.
The pretense would be if it only stated one side. This is journalism, not an opinion piece, and that involves speaking to people. There are many who like the life the small number of festivals bring, and who disagree that the park has been destroyed. You may disagree with them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
I know what journalism is thanks. This article presents one of the opinions as fact (the bit where someone points out the park has fully recovered). And if your argument is balance then it was two opinions saying that festivals needed to happen Vs one saying things shouldn't continue the way they are. Incidentally one of the pro opinions comes from someone who got a free ticket from the organisers last year... So they sound like a great source. Lol
When even more damage is done to the park this year, it's nice to know that it doesn't matter because the main was that people who wanted it to go ahead we're given a biased platform.
Tanking into account vehicle excise duty, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, congestion charge and ULEZ, I hardly think the average motorist thinks they can travel anywhere for free! I have a lot of sympathy for those who have little alternative to cars/vans in cities, particularly in London. I used to have a car, and I ended up using it more often when my children were small. Tried using busses, but they will only allow 2 buggies max and you (understandably) have to vacate that space if a wheelchair user needs it. Got so fed up being refused entry by the bus driver I used the car instead if the distance was too far to walk.
Pub quiz fact: the Woolwich Ferry is the only regular open-to-all public transport service that TfL (or rather, the GLA) has a statutory obligation to provide.
We cover this topic in my MA module at Westminster called Managing The Music City. We've been looking at Finsbury Park for a few years and I have been observing Brockwell Park enter this market with interest. The issue at the intersection of music, culture, policy, and the built environment is that there are too many stakeholders with differing interests some of which are in complete opposition to each other. That said surely Lambeth could start by spending enough money on fixing the ground and grass afterwards so that it recovers much quicker.
I did not know about the Hoopla Festival. Looks like fun to me, despite being very white, very middle-aged, very male and very heterosexual. I confess, I don't live near the park, so I do not have to endure the noise and crowds. Having run events myself, I know that the upfront costs and risks are substantial; they can go very well for the organisers or very badly (financially speaking). I wouldn't want any or park to incur losses, perhaps they can negotiate a fairer price based on commercial success (getting a piece of the action). I wish good luck and fairness for everyone involved.
Thanks for giving a voice to those in favour of the festivals, Jim. I'm a long-term Brixton resident and Brockwell Park user. I don't think the people complaining about the festivals would be willing to pay increased council tax. And the Lambeth Country Show is a wonderful, inclusive, free weekend festival. The paid festivals (which I have enjoyed) still leave much of the park accessible too. There are restrictions on timings of the music and the pedestrian flow is handled really well. I think they do a decent job, and the grass does recover. I think it's a legitimate question about whether councils are negotiating the best deals with the festival organisers, but I'm annoyed that Lambeth Council will need to spend time and money defending themselves against this needless judicial review.
Thanks Lucy Akrill for sharing what the majority of local people think. There are 700 people in the local WhatsApp group concerned about what is happening to our park.
Yeah, we get there are hundreds of wealthy middle class types living nearby who wants everything their own way and therefore the festivals to go away. Interesting to see that they are now stumping up their own disposable money to achieve this.
However there are 100s of thousands of folk that attend these festivals in Brockwell Park every summer, and the enjoyment of these cultural events far outweighs you. Enjoy the summer, hope its nice and loud this year!
Would love to know where the money that was meant to be spent on local children at Brockwell Bounce went. It was cancelled after the park was left in such a bad state.
I think the point about the bad deal is important. I wouldn't object to Wireless Festival in Finsbury Park if I thought the council were really squeezing the operators for money, but summer events in Finsbury Park turn over somewhere around £40 million a year of which the council only takes £1.2 million to put back into the park. Local council committees aren't any more capable of negotiating effectively with big festival operators than they are with big property developers. In the future, when all the councils are stripped of their powers in the way that London Centric commenters hope and pray for, these things should be negotiated centrally so that the festival operators can't shop around so easily.
One of the first things I did when starting LC was try to find out how much councils are getting. Inevitably it was locked down under commercial confidentiality. If people saw that the council got X million they might be more positive. Or they might just saw it’s not enough!
I'd be happy if the Council got more money from the operators but I'd be even happier if the likes of The Friends of Finsbury Park were even vaguely representative of the local population or if local social media comment was equally critical of the noise and mess created by the middle aged white rock band events as it is of Wireless.
Not sure that's entirely fair. Wireless is a bit more chaotic because it's younger, for sure, so it's kinda bound to get more complaints.
I mean, they got tough mudder stopped and that's pretty white.
Yeah, same here. I get mildly pissed off with the noise from the Finny P festivals and that but I'd be happy for them to put on more if I thought they were getting a fair amount of cash. I'm almost certain, from what I can glean from the accounts, that they're not.
Disappointing to see London Centric pretend that there are two sides to this... the festivals are destroying the park, that's a fact. It hasn't recovered at all from last year - also a fact. It seems to endorse the view that it's all fine because LGBTQ+ people need "somewhere to dance and have a nice time". Anyone who thinks destroying the park is a good idea must be a "retired white person". You might as well give airtime to climate change deniers or flat-earthers.
Now if the council wants to host festivals, great - but they need to be smaller, shorter and more money needs to go into repairing the spaces and leave them in a better condition than they were before.
Never going to both-sides a story for the sake of it but there’s definitely a tension here… some people are quite happy with the trade-off of the damage. Would be neglectful to exclude those voices.
I went to check it out for myself back in October and you can look back at a piece I wrote on the damage to the park and the promoters giving away tickets to local councillors back.
Incidentally, I'm a Herne Hill resident, a 5x Hoopla veteran, employed and gay. There are other places I can dance that are far less destructive.
These parks are massive and the festivals only use part of them at any one time, with the rest open to the public. Having slightly less muddy patches of grass is less important than council revenues for local residents and the fun that the festivals offer for the average Londoner
The problem is more than just more muddy grass. Last year it was a total wasteland that is only just starting to recover.
That's before you consider the disruption to wildlife. Also, talking specifically about Brockwell, the festivals take up a huge amount of space. They occupy most of the grassland areas, and fence off even more for their operational and support areas and access roads.
If you seriously think building a fortress in a public park that denies people access and causes more environmental damage than any income generated covers, is a good exchange, then you're part of the problem.
Also, "average Londoners" will be the first people to suffer when our green spaces are trashed.
The people against festivals in Finsbury Park also claim the Park is destroyed each year and it's just not true. The hyperbole doesn't help the case for more environmentally responsible festival operations.
I can't speak to Finsbury park, only Brockwell...and I can promise you it's not hyperbole. It might be that some parks are just better suited to events.... I used to live next to Victoria Park and that always seemed to cope much better. It certainly bounced back a lot quicker.
The pretense would be if it only stated one side. This is journalism, not an opinion piece, and that involves speaking to people. There are many who like the life the small number of festivals bring, and who disagree that the park has been destroyed. You may disagree with them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
I know what journalism is thanks. This article presents one of the opinions as fact (the bit where someone points out the park has fully recovered). And if your argument is balance then it was two opinions saying that festivals needed to happen Vs one saying things shouldn't continue the way they are. Incidentally one of the pro opinions comes from someone who got a free ticket from the organisers last year... So they sound like a great source. Lol
When even more damage is done to the park this year, it's nice to know that it doesn't matter because the main was that people who wanted it to go ahead we're given a biased platform.
You did not reply to Jim.
Here's a solution for the rage-filled motorist who think they have the right to drive anywhere and everywhere for free: use public transport.
Tanking into account vehicle excise duty, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, congestion charge and ULEZ, I hardly think the average motorist thinks they can travel anywhere for free! I have a lot of sympathy for those who have little alternative to cars/vans in cities, particularly in London. I used to have a car, and I ended up using it more often when my children were small. Tried using busses, but they will only allow 2 buggies max and you (understandably) have to vacate that space if a wheelchair user needs it. Got so fed up being refused entry by the bus driver I used the car instead if the distance was too far to walk.
I'm glad you gave a voice to someone other than the NIMBYs. These festivals are great.
Pub quiz fact: the Woolwich Ferry is the only regular open-to-all public transport service that TfL (or rather, the GLA) has a statutory obligation to provide.
We cover this topic in my MA module at Westminster called Managing The Music City. We've been looking at Finsbury Park for a few years and I have been observing Brockwell Park enter this market with interest. The issue at the intersection of music, culture, policy, and the built environment is that there are too many stakeholders with differing interests some of which are in complete opposition to each other. That said surely Lambeth could start by spending enough money on fixing the ground and grass afterwards so that it recovers much quicker.
Excellent as ever-real news for the capital as last!
I did not know about the Hoopla Festival. Looks like fun to me, despite being very white, very middle-aged, very male and very heterosexual. I confess, I don't live near the park, so I do not have to endure the noise and crowds. Having run events myself, I know that the upfront costs and risks are substantial; they can go very well for the organisers or very badly (financially speaking). I wouldn't want any or park to incur losses, perhaps they can negotiate a fairer price based on commercial success (getting a piece of the action). I wish good luck and fairness for everyone involved.
Thanks for giving a voice to those in favour of the festivals, Jim. I'm a long-term Brixton resident and Brockwell Park user. I don't think the people complaining about the festivals would be willing to pay increased council tax. And the Lambeth Country Show is a wonderful, inclusive, free weekend festival. The paid festivals (which I have enjoyed) still leave much of the park accessible too. There are restrictions on timings of the music and the pedestrian flow is handled really well. I think they do a decent job, and the grass does recover. I think it's a legitimate question about whether councils are negotiating the best deals with the festival organisers, but I'm annoyed that Lambeth Council will need to spend time and money defending themselves against this needless judicial review.
How many days until the massive fences go up?
Thanks Lucy Akrill for sharing what the majority of local people think. There are 700 people in the local WhatsApp group concerned about what is happening to our park.
Yeah, we get there are hundreds of wealthy middle class types living nearby who wants everything their own way and therefore the festivals to go away. Interesting to see that they are now stumping up their own disposable money to achieve this.
However there are 100s of thousands of folk that attend these festivals in Brockwell Park every summer, and the enjoyment of these cultural events far outweighs you. Enjoy the summer, hope its nice and loud this year!
Would love to know where the money that was meant to be spent on local children at Brockwell Bounce went. It was cancelled after the park was left in such a bad state.
Really interesting story, Jim.
I’d never even heard of the Woolwich Ferry so thank you for this nugget of wisdom ⛴️
That's the North terminal, dear boy.