68 Comments
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Eva Ducruezet's avatar

What's always baffled me - as a Southern European in London - is the completely lack of investment in OUTDOOR shutters. Indoor shutters will do some work to keep a flat/house cool, but not nearly as much as an outdoor shutter or awning will, as those will block the sun's heat from even hitting the glass, hence preventing the flat from turning into a greenhouse. It genuinely drives me mad. Go to any small town in Italy or France or Spain or Portugal and you'll see outdoor shutters (or at least awnings) everywhere, because they're effective!

Ian T's avatar

Because historically the UK hasn't been that hot that often.

Eva Ducruezet's avatar

Of course - but I'm talking about recent years. I haven't seen any new builds in London that have incorporated outdoor shutters. And as the article states, people are rushing to install A/C units when they could start with this simpler, more energy efficient option. (This won't be a fit for every building of course, depending on window structure etc - but it will be for many of them!)

Jim Waterson's avatar

I genuinely don’t think Brits know what to do and some basic government public information campaign stuff could help here.

Amy N's avatar

You could post this same comment under just about every story here and it would be appropriate... :D

growth pls's avatar

Given the earth will likely have descended into a fiery hellpit by the time that happens, can London Centric provide some advice? Surely you can ring a professor or two who can help explain this stuff to us? And find a few suggested suppliers who can install outdoor shutters etc? I realise you are not Which?, but it would be genuinely useful...

Lily's avatar

If I had sash windows, I'd get these which I saw recently. Renter friendly! https://www.stayshaded.co.uk/

word_geek's avatar

Am I right in thinking those are essentially held in place by having the top sash window closed? Because one thing a lot of people don't realise is that sash windows are designed to be opened top and bottom when it's hotter inside than outside--the hot air expands out the top, pulling in cooler air through the bottom window. Or if you are lucky enough to have front and back sashes, you can open the top one on one side and the bottom on the other side (this pulls the air across the room). In a heatwave, it's only effective late at night or early in the morning, but it can make a big difference.

So you might want to use those awnings judiciously, basically. That said, great idea

Jody KF's avatar

I so agree! .We need them here desperately.

Tom Curtis's avatar

And we don’t like change

Carolin's avatar

Even Germany… They also keep rooms dark when sunrise is at 5am!

Eva Ducruezet's avatar

Lol I know! I’m currently living in Sweden and sunrise is at 3:45am 😬

Penumbral Whinger's avatar

I suspect a decent chunk of that is to do with getting permission to install them in leasehold flats. I am outright banned from installing shutters under the terms of my lease but there is nothing stopping me getting a portable aircon unit because it's a not a permanent change to the outside of the building. Which is obviously incentivising the wrong choices, because passive cooling should always come first.

When it gets really hot, I have a DIY temporary shutter system largely made from bungee cords and those reflective car windscreen things, which is effective but very, very ugly, but again, is allowed because it's not permanent.

Flora Fyfe-Graham's avatar

Check this out! I don’t work there haha just looks potentially interesting https://www.stayshaded.co.uk/

Ian T's avatar

I've bought one of these and it seems pretty effective.

Penumbral Whinger's avatar

It's very sweet that you think I'm posh enough to live somewhere with sash windows, but also very much not the case

Helen Fleming's avatar

You showed exceptional restraint not offering us any editorial comment on

"But the feature that really caught our eye was a wooden “bespoke indoor slide” linking the landscaped garden with a cinema room."

Joey den Broeder's avatar

You're also very unlikely to be able to get an air-to-air heat pump installed in a flat, where the freeholder will probably tell everyone to pound sand. I've seen people looking at water-to-air heat pumps, where you connect it to mains water (generally ~12C in summer) and use that to cool the flat (not like a swamp cooler). An incredible waste of fresh water.

Jim Waterson's avatar

Leasehold is not just a feudal system! It's a feudal system that keeps you hot!

Charlie Richmond's avatar

Most London buses are air conditioned but when it's hot, everyone opens all the windows which completely negates any advantage. Unfortunately people don't understand how air con works!

Matthieu Dinh's avatar

Air-cooled rather than air-conditioned, having grown up in a city with proper a/c buses (Hong Kong), there's big difference! And even then-- not always: I believe up until 2021 only the top deck of buses have had air cooling installed (so the lower deck is reliant on the windows and doors being opened and closed to create some air circulation), and similarly single decker buses had nothing at all until new buses arrived with the new spec that year.

Charlie Richmond's avatar

We are leaseholders and have applied to our council to install a heat pump of any type and they have told us that we can't because the rules prohibit installation of such a device 'within 1m of the property line' - which is of course in the middle of our wall. This effectively means we can't actually make any permanent changes within 1m of our wall INSIDE our flat, which is clearly ridiculous. The rule has now changed to 'outside our property line' but that still means we can't make any changes outside of the middle of the wall. Of course all these satellite dishes (now disappearing) and gas boiler vents have always completely violated both of these rules but council has consistently ignored the situation and turned a blind eye. When will things improve??

Ben Whittle's avatar

The 1 metre rule has been removed about 18 months ago!

Charlie Richmond's avatar

Great - now I can install something inside the flat within 1m of the wall. But the outside half of the wall is not my property and I can’t legally alter property that is not mine without their permission - and council is not interested in giving permission at this time.

Ben Whittle's avatar

I’m not sure I entirely understand your situation. The main caveat is that the unit still has to meet the other planning conditions, and it must not be installed on a wall that fronts a highway if any part of the unit is above ground-floor level.

So you can in principle install on a boundary wall, but not on every boundary wall.

Charlie Richmond's avatar

And a 'highway' is anything that people travel on, including a footpath, so it can't be visible to anyone passing by. Since our flat is on the first floor facing a street and two pavements, that eliminates the installation right there. But also the outside wall is not our property and the outdoor unit would need to be installed on the council's wall, which they will not allow. In addition, the council will not allow the unit to be mounted on a wall and insists it be installed on the ground, even if the ground was my property, which it is not - it is the yard of the flat below us. A specific reason they have given me for not allowing it on a wall is 'it might fall on someone' which is presumably another part of 'not fronting a highway'. Ah, they have come up with so many ways to reject it, it's quite amusing! Does this assist you in understanding the situation? ;-)

Ben Whittle's avatar

Ok it sounds like a difficult situation but there are some points to make still.

1 Being visible is not a valid reason for rejection ( unless in a conservation area or on a listed building etc)

2 installing on walls above ground level is pretty common (though not necessarily sensible from a maintenance perspective). If you take a walk around any where in central London I’m sure it won’t take you long to spot them on bars and restaurants installed above ground level

3 the issue of safety is valid but there is a ready solution, safety lanyards. Specifically designed for this purpose

I appreciate this is all a moot point if you don’t fancy the battle! It does sound hard work and a lot is stacked against you. The hardest of which is not owning the outside of the wall : )

There are products designed to be installed from the inside ( search Electriq room air conditioner ) but these require 2x 4” holes cored through the wall and I doubt the council will like this either : )

Charlie Richmond's avatar

You understand the situation perfectly and I am tempted to put the two holes through a 2.5cm thick piece of flimsy insulation that they installed as a decorative panel below our windows (with no inside or outside fireproof facing at all) and go with that ;-)

Brice's avatar

Had the pleasure of using a 343 bus with a panoramic roof this weekend, really great these days.

More seriously, anyone who rents is also automatically prevented from having any kind of AC installed, so at best you get a mobile AC unit. Combined with the landlord's special insulation tier.

Sarah Herriot's avatar

Also begs the question why it is seemly impossible to have an adequately air conditioned bus in London. Would be interesting to know any intention regarding the utterly inadequate aircon on the Thomas Heatherwick buses, which are currently hot as hades, a health hazard and a scandal!

Jim Waterson's avatar

Also despite reports of their demise, the cursed Routemasters are currently in the middle of a renewal programme!

Andrew's avatar

The Routemasters were decommissioned in the 1980s. Do you mean NB4L New Bus for London?

MRAC's avatar

No he means the New Routemaster — these were never actually called the New Bus For London in the end.

MRAC's avatar

A plague on Heatherwick Studio for ever and ever

Annonymous's avatar

Only a curse because the media ran a hate campaign against them. Perfectly fine buses, as a regular user myself. Just avoid them, and most other buses, during any heatwaves.

MRAC's avatar

ABsolutely not — the New Routemaster design is atrocious. The sauna effect on the top deck is real. The “four facing each other” set up on the lower deck is AWFUL. The seats directly infront of these with the high straight backs are the opposite of ergonomically designed. The windows provide little airflow considering the bus is always around 4000 degrees AND they all run on diesel not hybrid anyway.

Don’t play with me bro, I suffer this bus regularly. Heatherwick Studio should pay for this

Tom Curtis's avatar

You won’t get far telling people to ignore their own experience. The heatherwick buses are hell in hot weather.

Tom Curtis's avatar

I would settle for the driver not having the heating on full blast

Annonymous's avatar

Yes they're not but they're not hotter or an outlier compared to buses of similar as the mainstream media wants to make you think. TfL did an investigation and found they were no more hotter than buses at similar age to them.

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/complaints-regarding-heat-new-routemaster-buses-1

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1163-1819

"We conducted checks of NRMs and non-NRM double deck buses and found temperatures were similar in both, in some cases slightly lower on the NRMs. As passengers also commented about stuffiness, lack of air flow and comfort, we opted to retrofit NRMs already in service and modify the design of NRMs under production to have opening windows built into them."

I wish people would stop repeating this bollocks like it's the truth.

Maybe London Centric should do an article on common myths behind them? @JimWaterson

Sarah Herriot's avatar

You have clearly never been on one of the Heatherwick buses when it is hot

MRAC's avatar

THOMAS HEATHERWICK BURNER ACCOUNT REVEALED

Fabio Fiorelli's avatar

The bit about Madeira reminds me of the recent closure of Cardinals, a well regarded British italian café with excellent breakfasts and large sandwiches. The owners simply wanted to retire, especially considering the challenges of increasing running costs.

Jim Waterson's avatar

So the bit people don't see with this newsletter or any news outlet done well is the number of stories that we've looked into and found it doesn't stack up. That takes up half the time! So many dead ends. This one just amused me when Polly put the call in.

shrock's avatar

the johnson/ heatherwick buses deserve a dishonourable mention in the list of things that prove london's inability to deal with heat.

Annonymous's avatar

Why specifically those? They aren't the only sufferers.

shrock's avatar

because they are the most recent ones , launched with great fanfare by you know who, & designed by one of the most prolific/ famous designers. so the fact that they didn't originally even have opening windows is a big fail ;)

Gian's avatar

How about simple ceiling fans

Brain Riot's avatar

The Fish&Co stantioners on Blackstock Road is closing and a 24/7 gambling centre has successfully appealed Hackney councils planning rejection. The MHCLG inspector says all manner of nonsense such as: "The Council states that the proposal does not contribute to such diversification due

to the existing proximity of other adult gambling centres in the area. However,

based on the evidence before me, I have only been made aware of one other AGC within close proximity (approximately 400 metres away) to the appeal site" and "There is no substantive evidence before me to demonstrate a link between the

proposed AGC and an increase in gambling related harm".

Brain Riot's avatar

I cannot recount the number of times that I've jumped over pools off blood on my walk home. But to have central government override this in face of a long, arduous effort by local council feels like a slap in the face. Evidence from the council's public health team was ignored. The last thing finsbury park needs is this. Devolution continues to be a sham.

Theaudacityofboats's avatar

We face exactly the same issue in a (neighbouring) Local Authority (my workplace). Planning refuse permission for change of use to a gambling premises - overturned by planning inspector. Licensing refuse a license - overturned by Magistrates Court (!) as out of line with central government’s requirement that we “aim to permit”. It’s such a travesty of local democracy. Our newly elected councillors have included this as a key area for lobbying central government over their next term.

Katherine Wheatley's avatar

We tried to install air-to-air heat pump and included it as part of a planning application. Lambeth council rejected the application for this on the grounds that it would need a full council noise assessment. Local and central government somewhat at odds again

JWH's avatar

How noisy are they? While I’d welcome the cooling, and the presumed environmental benefits, what concerns me is the potential for constant mechanical humming all over neighbourhoods 24/7, especially if these things aren’t properly installed.

MRAC's avatar

It’s just SO CRINGE when the government intervene with hospitality discount schemes. KIDS MEAL SUMMER reeks of eat out to help out which was (by all accounts) a complete fucking joke.

Jim Waterson's avatar

Publicity gain from taking the piss vs Risk of HMRC prosecution for taking piss = the kids meal opportunity delta

Andrew's avatar

If the point is economic stimulus, then the more expensive the meal, the better.

Nick Reid's avatar

Imagine my surprise when I jumped on one of the new buses serving the 22 route yesterday to find that - quite incredibly - no aircon had been installed in it. This city is run by imbeciles.

Ellie's avatar

Shade the UK is a great resource and initiative

https://www.shadetheuk.com/

-'H'-'s avatar

All consuming more electricity when nature delivers air conditioning with zero power consumption - and in the same way also cool down the tube tunnels using air and water often available from the rivers buried under London 160+ years ago